Source: www.christiannews.net
As previously reported, Aaron and Melissa Klein operate Sweet Cakes by Melissa in Gresham, which is now operated from the couple’s home after the Kleins’ shut their doors due to harassment. In January 2013, Aaron was approached by a mother and her daughter as the two were interested in a cake for the daughter’s upcoming wedding—to her lesbian partner.
“My first question was what’s the wedding date,” Klein told television station KTW in Portland. “My next question was [the] bride and groom’s name. … The girl giggled a little bit and said, ‘It’s two brides.’”
He then informed the women that the bakery does not make cakes for homosexual events.
“I apologized for wasting their time and said that, unfortunately, we do not do same-sex marriages,” Klein explained.
The women left Sweet Cakes upset about the incident, and later, one of them filed a complaint with the state. The Oregon attorney general’s office soon launched an investigation against the Klein’s as the state’s non-discrimination laws prevent public accommodations from being denied to any individual on the basis of “race, color, religion, sex [or] sexual orientation.”
But Klein states that he regularly serves homosexuals. He believes that there is a difference between serving homosexuals in general and having to personally facilitate same-sex ceremonies, which is an act of participation.
“I have customers come in almost on a weekly basis that are homosexual,” he said. “They can buy my stuff. I sell stuff. I talk with them. That’s fine. … This was not the first time we’ve served these girls.”
“We were being asked to participate in something that we could not participate in,” Klein’s wife, Melissa, noted.
Some Christians believe that being a part of a same-sex event violates the biblical command in 1 Timothy 5:22 not to be “partakers in other men’s sins,” as well as the command in Ephesians 5:7, “Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
In February, a judge with the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries ruled that the Christian bakers are guilty of discrimination for declining to make the cake, thus moving the matter into the sentencing phase. The Kleins had expressed concern prior to the ruling that if they were forced to pay a fine for declining the cake over their Christian convictions, the penalty would “definitely” bankrupt the family.
In April, Alan McCullough, an administrative judge with the bureau, recommended a fine of $135,000, with one of the women receiving $75,000 and the other $60,000. Prosecutors had sought damages of $75,000 each.
The two women, who have been identified as Rachel Cryer and Laurel Bowman, submitted individual lists of just under 100 aspects of suffering in order to receive the damages. They included “acute loss of confidence,” “doubt,” “distrust of men,” “distrust of former friends,” “excessive sleep,” “discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “impaired digestion,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “mental rape,” “resumption of smoking habit,” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” “weight gain” and “worry.”
But the Kleins told the court that they too had suffered because of the attacks that they received over their desire to live out their Christian faith in the workplace. They stated that they endured “mafia tactics” as their car was vandalized and broken into on two occasions, their vendors were harassed by homosexual advocates resulting in some businesses breaking ties with them, and they received threatening emails wishing rape, death and Hell upon the family. As a result, they had to close their business and move it into their private home.
This week, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries accepted McCollough’s recommendation and fined the Kleins $135,000.
“This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” the final order, written by Commissioner Brad Avakian, read. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”
The Kleins told commentator Todd Starnes that they are disappointed by the order and plan to appeal.
“We were just running our business the best we could—following the Lord’s example,” Melissa Kelin stated. “I’m just blown away by the ruling. They are punishing us for not participating in the wedding.”
Aaron Klein vowed to fight Avakian in court.
“This man has no power over me,” he said. “He seems to think he can tell me to be quiet. That doesn’t sit well with me and I refuse to comply.”
Sweet Cakes by Melissa had served Cryer and Bowman for all other orders at their bakery, and even considered the women to be their friends.
Grabe naman. Wala din bang right ang business owner tumanggi?
ReplyDeleteSo you support discriminatory business practices?
DeleteETO NA! ANG BEING PERSECUTED BECAUSE OF BELIEVING IN THE SON OF GOD! THE END IS NEAR....
DeleteOA na ibang LGBT, gusto nila yung point of view lang nila iniintindi.
DeleteOA niyo discrimination agad?
Delete4:40 - Hindi OA iyan sa US, baks. Ganiyan sila ka-openminded. Batas nila iyan kaya hindi ka-OAyan.
DeleteOA ng lgbt na talaga.. sabi nga ng owner, customers nila ung couple, and they serve gays and straights sa shop nila.
DeleteTumanggi sila magparticipate dun sa wedding ceremony because it goes against their religious belief, so bakit sila kelangan ipersecute dun?
628 - weh. dahil sa US, dahil batas nila, hindi na pwede maging OA??
DeleteAng OA ng pagtingin mo sa kanila
Sad world. Gays have rights. But Christians dont. This is too much
DeleteThis is the downside of approving something na hindi lahat ng tao mag bbenifit. Magsasara nlng ang maliliit na shops. This will affect lots of people and the economy as well.
DeleteAnon 2:18 Bakit alien ba ang mga owners na tumanggi. Diba tao din. So me karapatang pang "tao" din sila. Kahit anu pang "paniniwala" kung ang LGBT naniniwala silang babae sila kahit lalake naman tlga or lalake kahit babae naman tlga. Bakit hindi pwedeng manwala sa Diyos ung owner ng shop?
DeleteWow open-minded ka pag tinanggap mo sila pero sila di pede maging open minded na may iba kang paniniwala? Wala namang binastos ah! Panalo ang OA. You ask fof respect and yet you always play victim when the fact is you are not respecting other people's faith and beliefs. Sad sad world.
DeleteShame on those 2 women for destroying the couple's love and commitment, for their work and livelihood
DeleteThey could have just gone to another baker and on
See? Couple with children living a normal life is now being downed by the whiners of the society. Being discriminated by the same people who seek for equality. Where is the bright future of our children now??
DeleteETO KASI YUN:
DeleteIf you offer wedding cake services to everybody except HOMOSEXUALS, then its discriminatory.
ganun ka simple ang BATAS!
kung may paniniwala ka sa Catholic Doctrine at feeling mo eh labag yun sa prinsipyo mo, then wag ka na mag tinda ng wedding cakes.
pede ka naman mag cake business na walang wedding cake para di ka makalabag ng batas.
isipin mo kung BLACK people ang ayaw nila igawa ng cake dahil feeling nila , di na dapat kinakasal ang mga NEGRO?
O diba isang malaking discrimination yun.
It's sad na napasa ang law na ito. At mas sad na naaapektohan na ang mga tao na namumuhay ng tama at payapa dati. Wala na tlga. :( bakit kelangan may cake oa kasi. Dba right lang naman habol nyo. Gusto nyo lang makuha yung pera na naipundar ng partner nyo. Oh pagka pirma ng kontrata ok na yun. Di ung naninira pa ng buhay ng iba
DeleteAnon 12:03 magkaibang sitwasyon naman kasi un. Pag ako nag deskriminate ako ng negro, mali tlga yun. Kasi wala namang malalim na basehan para hindi ko sya bentahan dba? Eto kasing sitwasyon na to merong basehan at un ung paniniwala nila sa salita ni Lord. Gets mo? And nag bubusiness nila ng maayos bago mapasa yang same sex marriage.
Delete12:14
Deleteikaw ang di ma kagets.
nuong araw, normal na hindi mag serve ng food sa mga negro.
naging against sa batas nalang nung ipag laban nila.
that is DISCRIMINATORY. malinaw
12:14 kung nag business sila ng maayos before same sex marriage, dapat sundin nila ang bagong batas. KAYA NGA BAGO DIBA? may nabago na. hindi na pede ang mag discriminate kasi legal na ang same sex marriage. haler?!!!
DeleteFreedom of Religion is a constitutionally protected right in the USA under the First Amemdment.
Delete@12.03, you are comparing apples to oranges. While I respect everyone's freedom to free speech, including yours, your lack of understanding is dangerous to those who know less than you. So, please be careful of the things you state on these boards.
The recent signing into law of the legalization of same-sex marriage in the USA is being used as a platform to transgress the rights of those who practice their religion.
There is a difference between Civil Rights under the law and Civil Liberties that certain groups, associations, and individuals use to encroach the rights of others under the Constitution. PLEASE LEARN THE DIFFERENCE.
Nakakataka. Pilipinas ang nagiisang Christian nation sa south east pero ang daming nagtatanggol sa maling paniniwala?
DeleteJust to enlighten those who are not looking at all the facts- the bakers were sued in 2013 pa, way before the SCOTUS decision. May law sa state nila na ANTI-DISCRIMINATORY which has nothing to do with same sex marriage just PLAIN DISCRIMINATION.
DeletePLEASE LEARN THE DEFINITION OF DISCRIMINATION.
And by the way- yung discrimination po ng NEGRO galing din yan sa BIBLE. The Bible was used as the basis and justification for SLAVERY of the Africans and anyone with black skin. Same basis for these Christians to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Dati yung baker mag rerefuse din to bake a cake for an interracial marriage. PAREHO lan yan na DISCRIMINATION.
ahhh mali ka pa rin 336am nagmamarunong ka pa. ikaw ang maling pagkaintindi sa ruling ng supreme court. panalo na mga vaks and tbooms at law of the land ang winner. tanong mo pa kay obama . mas matalino si @1203 sa u day.. kahit anong business hindi mananalo ng discrimination sa US . nahatulan na nga ng Judge. judge ka ba?? hindiii
DeleteBaklang Manicurista: The Law is never simple, kaya nga lalaban yung bakers dahil meron silang defense, FREEDOM OF RELIGION. At karapatan din ng bakers na itinda kung ano gusto nila. Ang reklamo nung lesbians, discrimination, e bakit me customers yung bakers na homosexuals kabilang yung 2 lesbian? Tapos ang laki laki pa ng hinihingi nila for damages.
Delete3:36 at 12:29
Deletehaler? nasan ang utak nyo?
eto na nga diba? MALINAW:
This week, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries accepted McCollough’s recommendation and fined the Kleins $135,000.
“This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” the final order, written by Commissioner Brad Avakian, read. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”
Baklang manicurista hindi mo ba nabasa yung part na sabi nila they serve homosexuals all the time? Tumanggi lang sila magparticipate sa wedding
DeleteDito sa Amerika, matagal ng pinaglalabanan yan, religion rights at moral rights under the law.
DeleteHalimbawa, abortion rights. Nasa batas na legal ang abortion. Nasa batas na legal ang freedom to practice religion. Kung medical professional ka, na nagpapa-anak (OB GYN), kapag may pumunta sa iyo para magpa-abort, in theory, under the law, you cannot refuse. BUT, if your religious beliefs preclude you from performing your profession, like an abortion, you can refer them to another practitioner within your practice or a colleague within your clinic/hospital, etc... Many medical offices and/or medical centers now employ within their hiring process a waiver that an employee needs to sign upon employment that allows them to practice their religious beliefs without fear of persecution, and also to proactively avoid a lawsuit.
Sa case na ito ng Christian bakers v. Lesbian couple, the principles are the same.
Meron bagong batas na same-sex marriage sa America, which allows LGBT to have the same rights as everyone of its heterosexual citizens. In theory, under the newly-minted law, the Christian bakers cannot refuse the LGBT couple; BUT because of their religious convictions, they informed the lesbian couple that they cannot partake to what they believe is a "sin" of man. THIS single, honest, admission got the ire of the LGBT, because simply, they do not consider their existence as a "sin" per se. With the new law now passed, their beliefs and everything they stand for, includes them in everything any heterosexual citizen is afforded under the law. Ergo, the "sin" in the equation no longer applies. The LGBT is as legitimate as any heterosexual citizen in every one of the 51 states in the United States of America.
So, now:
Do the Christian bakers in this case have legal standing to refuse the lesbian couple their business? No.
Does the Constitution afford the Christian bakers the right to practice their religion? Yes.
Do I believe the court was fair in its judgment without the benefit of using any medical or psychological experts to validate the 100 Aspects of Suffering and thus awarding a judgment of $135,000? My belief is, no, it is not. Why? While the judgment is punitive it is also very politically motivated. This case now stands to be some sort of a "poster child" to advance the LGBT agenda. It is hardly debated now, and will probably be for a long time. Like someone above commented, the differences between civil laws and civil liberties have a fine line, balancing it is like a delicate dance. The litigious nature of certain people can tip the balance to their favor and put another and make the laws unfair for many.
Just because someone does not agree with certain civil liberties, it does not make them a bigot, nor does it make them a disrespectful citizen of the USA. It is that simply they do not agree. And that freedom is universal here in America.
Good Point, Anon 10:17 pero 50 lang ang states ng USA
DeleteMga feeling api na ginagamit ng devl. Pati ibang tao dinadamay niyo, kayo naman lumapit at nangailangan. Kainis! Buti nalang nasa Pilipinas ako.
ReplyDeleteTo think naranasan din to ng business owners dahil they don't believe with what they believe in..
Delete“discomfort,” “high blood pressure,” “loss of appetite,” “migraine headaches,” “loss of pride,” “mental rape” “shock” “stunned,” “surprise,” “uncertainty,” and “worry.
Ok I apologize for my first statement but that is unfair. Loss of pride? Mental rape? Whoa. Too much. Nahhigh-blood ako.
DeleteThe anti-discrimination law in America is there to protect people's against any types of discrimination. Black people were refused service in the past due to the color of their skin; or Irish people due to religious discrimination, kasi Catholic sila and Catholics weren't accepted then in Protestant America.
DeletePut yourself in the LGBT's shoes, what if you were denied for being service kasi it's against their religion to serve Filipinos?
You think hindi yan nangyari before? Slave owners and up to the Civil Rights movement had cited "religion" as a defense on why slaves is sanctioned by God.
People use religion to justify bigotry and hate. Discrimination has no place in a civilized country. America is the land of the free, not "land of the free but not for the gays"
4:00 - A+ for you!
DeleteHow could you force someone to leave their faith behind just so that they won't have to go to jail? Those peopeople are running honest business. They are not homophobic, since they have other homosexuals customers that they serve. They just refuse to conduct and partake to an occasion where they aren particulary comfortable being a part of because of their religion. It is the land of the free and that is why they are granted the same sex marriage law even before other countries can do it but lets not abused it by harassin honest business peopeople who have religous beliefs.
Delete6:37 - A++++ for you!
DeleteExactly! Land of the free, except for Christians who want to exercise their right to stand up for their faith! Sino ang bigots now? Diba ang yung lesbian couple and the court?
Deletefreedom of religion is a constitutional right, the couple who refused to bake a wedding cake is only practicing their religion. i find the lesbians claims to be outrageous, loss of appetite, and also weight gain? yeah the judge is right it is not about the marriage not the cake, but neither about the religion too, it's now about power tripping
DeleteIm not sure where the LGBT's sense of entitlement are coning from?? People are trying to accept them but they so love to impose! If you want to be respected then respect other peoples' belief, you got your message accross by suing them why to do have to bleed them dry? You want compassion to be given to you, but are you even capable of giving it?
DeleteTry nyo pakainin ang Muslim nang pork sa isang binyagan. Parang ganun din yun eh. You are forcing the bakers to paticipate in an activity na labag sa faith nila.
Deletebakit nyo kasing pilitin gumawa ng cake nyo kung ayaw nila...? masyado ng spoiled itong LGBT..ina accept na nga ng society in general pero talagang gusto ipilit lahat ng gusto. eh di s aiba kayo mag pa cater, hindi naman obligado ang bakery sa lahat ng gusto nyo
ReplyDeleteHay i super agree! Nabigyan lang ng konting rights feeling entitled na sa lahat ng bagay!
DeleteSo pag LGBT ok lang i-discriminate? Pag ikaw kaya pakatikim dahil sa hitsura, edad o relhioyon mo o dahil lang di ka nila feel dahil hinusgaan ka nila na "mali" ang buhay mo tingnan natin kung ganyan parin paningin mo.
DeleteDitto. Sobra na pagkademanding! I am not against LGBT, pero sana naman, intindihin nyo din na not everyone can accept everything right away, respect din pag may sense.
DeleteHahahaha! Malalaman mo talaga kung sino iyong mga nabubuhay sa medieval age. Hahahahahahar!
Deletethe christian couple are not discriminating, according to them me mga homosexuals din silang customers.
DeleteOne half of the couple who sued them was already a customer before this whole incident happened and was friends with the bakers.
Delete''Businesses are free to decide what products they want to offer and what they do not. Therefore we should not expect to be able to buy a wedding cake from cupcake vendors. If, however, they did offer wedding cake, they would have to provide it without restriction based upon US Anti-discrimination Law that prevent businesses from denying to service/offer any individual on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or sexual orientation.'' #AntiDiscriminationLaw #CivilRightsLaw #EconomicLaw
ReplyDeletehow about the christian couple's right to practice their religion?
DeleteThis is not just about the basis of sexual orientation becuase like what they said, they serve their homesexuals clients when they go to their store, it's clear that they DO NOT discreminate, what they didnt want is to be a part of the wedding because they believe that in doing so they are committing a sin.
DeleteI believe they deserve to be fined for discrimination, which is what they did. If you want your business to be a podium for your religious beliefs then run it honestly and with integrity. Don't discriminate due to sexual orientation, skin color, weight, age, religion, nationality or disability.
ReplyDeleteNot familiar with the statute but amount seems rather excessive for a first offense though.
Nang dahil lang sa cake, SUFFERED emotinally na. Ka-OA-han na yan. Hindi na ba pwede magkaroon ng sariling "conviction"? "Discrimination" agad agad"? Lagi na lang bang may kuda ang LGBT tuwing hindi mapagbibigyan? Kayo na lang lagi ang api/kawawa/tama!
Delete2:27 - For example, sa mundo mas maraming bakla sa straight. Tapos marami samin ayaw namin sa inyo kasi against sa paniniwala nila ang pagiging straight. Dapat gay lahat. Tapos kinasal ka sa nobyo/nobya mo pero ayaw ng gay couple gawin iyong cake niyo kasi straight kayo. Hindi ba kayo masasaktan?
Delete6:33PM, masasaktan. Pero hindi ba kalabisan rin ang hiningi nilang damages? At basahin ang list na sinulat nila-impaired digestion? Resumption of smoking habits? so lahat nalang ng nafe-feel nila isisi sa Christian bakers?
Delete6:33 PM don't you think suing someone for hurting your feelings is very petty? Or even unreasonable? All of us got hurt at some point, for whatever reasons, pero hindi naman tayo nag-sue dba? Following your line of thinking, pwede na pala ako mag-sue sa ex boyfriend ko kasi nasaktan ang feelings ko nung nag break kami? Lol
DeleteNabasa ko na sinabihan yung isang client ng male owner na "You are an abomination unto the Lord." Sus ko. Siguro kung nag sabi nalang sila na "we can't do it because of our religious beliefs" walang kaso. Pero yun ang sinabi eh.
Delete9:29 ALLEGEDLY said.. but the bakers denied telling the couple that, but told them "i'm sorry for wasting your time but we can't do that because it's against our beliefs".
DeleteI'm gay but I think the couple's decision to ask for a huge fine is outrageous. I won't force any business to do business with me if they're not comfortable with my beliefs. Hindi lanh naman siguro sila ang bakery sa buong lugar nila. Lahat nalang descriminantion. Wala tayong madapala (LGBT) if we take everything emotionally. If we really want people to support our cause, we should build bridges, not burn bridges through whining and complaining descriminantion
DeleteSakin, ito ay isang pang-aabuso ng mga self-centered na na TAO (wala akong pqke sa sexual orientation nila). Gusto nila sila lang ang igagalang, yung kabilang partido ayaw nilang igalang. Where's EQUALITY in that? As if naman walang ibang bakeshop sa lugar nila.
ReplyDeletePasensya baks. Sa Amerika kasi mas importante ang buhay ng LGBT kesa sa buhay ng mga BIGOTS.
DeleteAyan, pag di napagbigyan, bigots na agad ang itatawag.. tantrums na..
Delete"Sa dinami dami ng bakery, gusto ko doon lang talaga. Pag di sila pumayag, mental rape! mental rape!"
Naawa ako sa mga Pinoy na naiintindihan at sangayon sa discrimination. #loser mentality
ReplyDeleteIyang mga iyan iyong mga hindi pa nakakatravel sa ibang bansa o nakakabasa ng libro (kulang sila sa perspectives).
DeleteNakakaawa rin kayo. Kasi you don't know how to respect the beliefs of others. It's not loser mentality ang being able to take a stand for something that you believe in.
DeleteI agree with you both. These people are just sad poor ignorant losers. And sadly, they are going to die as one.
DeleteExcuse me 635. Humble yourself. Talagang pinapasok mo sa argument ang travels at pagbabasa ng libro? Baka 3 countries lang napuntahan mo tas nagyayabang ka na. Gaano na ba ka-wide perspective mo? Ayaw lang kitang tapatan sa kayabangan mo. Don't forget discrimination's not all about perspective you get from travels and books, kulang ka sa DEPTH to understand that each race/culture has its own convictions and nuances. At hindi yan nakukuha at naiintindihan sa weeklong travels at overnight reading. The perspective I got abroad won't change my personal beliefs and convictions in a SNAP!
Deleteexcuse me 6:35, baka sampalin kita ng passport ko, hambalusin ng PhD ko at pakain ko sayo lahat ng pages ng libro ko
DeleteWell said 12:29! Sila ata ang kulang sa perspective kasi di nila naiintindihan na everyone has their own beliefs.. just because hindi ma accept ang what's right FOR THEM (same sex marriage), mababaw na agad.. di ba pwedeng may paninindigan lang din at paniniwala sa Diyos?
DeleteHahaha panalo comment mo 2:22.. Nakatungtong lng sa ilang bansa, akala mo na nkapagtravel n around the world!! Yabang!
DeleteKudos 12:29 and 2:22 nanguinsulto na lang, pikon kasi silanpag hindi sa kanila nakakakampi hehe
DeleteFor me I don't see na nag-discriminate sila. Ini-stand lang nila ang beliefs nila as a Christian. Sana ni-respect nalang ng lesbian couples at hindi nagpa-apekto tsaka maghanap nalang sila ng iba. Maraming naman silang for sure na mapagpipilian.
ReplyDelete-Christian girl na nirerespect ang LGBT
Sino nagsabi sayo mag discriminate ka ng Tao just because of their sexual preference? Sinabi ba ni God Na talikuran mo Ang tao because of their beliefs? Wala naman silang sinasaktan Na tao sa pagiging lesbian. May pinatay ba sila? I don't think sinabi din ni God Na maging judgemental tayo. Napaka self righteous Ang mga Ganyan. Mas mabuti pa Ang ibang lesbiana / gay Na nagpapakasal who remain faithful. Mga Iba jan Walang ginawa Kung Hindi mag commit ng adultery. Eh diba kasalanan yon? mas malaking kasalanan pa yun sa dios kesa sa magmahal Ang babae sa babae.
DeleteThat's not the point, the point of the baker is that according to the bible not to be partaker in other men's sin. If they belive that such act is a sin dahil si adan ay para kay eva, at si eva para kay adan. Then shouldn't those people learn how to respect that belief? Kasi hindi nman discrimination by gender, but just refusing business. And any establishment has the right to refuse service to anyone. Its part of freedom of choice and also freedon of religion. Hwag po tayong close minded, iisipin din po natin ung matatapakan dahil u thr lgbt community can now get married freely.
DeleteSa US kasi, mas importante ang karapatang pang-tao kesa karapatang pang-relihiyon.
DeleteKarapatang pantao din ang freedom of religion. Hindi ba discriminatiom din ang ginagawa ng lesbian couples and the court kasi the Christian bakers are being harassed and punished for standing up for their faith?
DeleteBut part of your right as human is be able to freely practice your religion. if one thinks that it is an act that causes him to sin he has a right to refuse and no one dare question that. its a matter of mutual respect...the gays could have let off and find another supplier but they insist what they wanted to happen. people nowadays forget humility and just always want things go their way...some arrogance
DeleteNot supporting same sex marriage or having an opinion against it is not being judgmental. Kasi if you read the Bible, it is clearly stated there that homosexuality is sin, and that marriage is between a man and a woman. This definition of marriage has been the norm for thousands of years, so meaning to say judgmental lahat ng tao noon? Lol people who don't believe in God and the Bible are so quick to pull the 'do not judge' card, but clearly they do not understand the context of that command. CONTEXT is everything. Just because someone calls you out for something that's wrong, it doesn't mean na being judgmental agad. So if parating do not judge nalang, pabayaan nalang lahat ng tao na gawin ang gusto nila? Kahit pumatay, mang rape, magnakaw, pabayaan nalang kasi di dapat judgmental? For Christians, homosexuality is a serious sin because it goes against the sacred covenant of marriage.
Delete@6:37 pm, grabe, teh, lahat ng comments yata dito sa article na to, nireplyan mo na. spokesperson ka ng US?
Deletewhat you're saying is not even true. There are a lot of dissenting opinions ngayon over the LGBT, same-sex marriage issues sa US. Kahit nga yung supreme court decision hindi unanimous.
And may I quote this from the universal declaration of HUMAN RIGHTS
"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion;. . .. to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance."
Again, HUMAN RIGHT 'yan.
Jusko, kung may karapatan yung lesbian couple magpakasal, may K din itong negosyante magrefuse ng client. This just glaringly shows the double standard that leftists approach the issue of civil rights. LOL
ReplyDeleteNaks first time ko atang mag agree kay ateng Glinda kainis. Hahaha!
DeleteDaldal ka nang daldal, wala namang sense pinagsasabi mo. Magkulong ka na lang sa GMA. Tutal nandun iyong mga "I need a name tag" idols mo.
DeleteWow! gma agad baks? Bakit taga abs cbn ka ba at affected ka? Kaloka!
Delete6:37, I have every right to say what I want, honey. And as an Ignaciatard you have every right to be bitter at me. LOL
Deletetama si glinda at si 7:28pm. pahiya ka ano, 6:37pm. umuwi ka na sa lola charo mo at kanina ka pa hinihintay nun, lol
DeleteOA yung 100 aspects of suffering. Sobra!
ReplyDeleteDAHIL LANG ITO SA CAKE. Tinangihan na gawain yung wedding cake, tapos hinarass at binully yung business owners hanggang sa isara na lang nila yung store front nila. Paano yung civil rights nung mga business owners?
OA na masyado ang pag-accommodate sa LGBT na yan. Pati mga taong gusto mamuhay ng maayos pineperwisyo. Why couldn't they just go to another bakery? Kung hindi ka susuporta sa LGBT okay lang na balwalain ang human rights mo? Very politically motivated ang judgment dahil sa recent passing ng legalized marriage sa USA.
It's not because of the cake - it's because of being refused to be made one just because of their sexual orientation. Hindi CAKE, kundi sa SEXUAL ORIENTATION. SEXUAL ORIENTATION over CAKE.
DeleteFYI if you will read the article properly, they weren't refused because of their sexual orientation. Kasi if that were the case, the bakery would have refused all gay/lesbian customers they have. And sinabi nga na they have no problem with their homosexual customers, they are even friends with them and have sold cakes to them before. BUT they do not agree with same sex marriage, so they would rather not participate because for them it's sin. There's a BIG DIFFERENCE.
Delete638 - they cater to gays, customers nga nila diba. Ayaw lang nila magparticipate dun sa ceremony mismo
DeleteNirerespeto kayo, pero bakit pinipilit nio isama sa event ung may ibang paniniwala
Freedom to exercise religion and/or creed ay kasali sa civil rights ng mga Amerikano. Ano nangyari doon? Bakit hindi kinonsider sa judgment? Pwede pang i-apela yan. Dahil yung ginawang harassment at bullying ng supporters nung lesbian couple ay against the law rin. And I agree, tungkol Lang ito sa cake vs sa ego ng LGBT members and supporters. Displaced ang pag-invoke ng kanilang right to marriage. Dapat humanap na lang ng ibang gagawa ng cake nila. Agree rin ako na OA yung mga sufferings kuno nila. Eto ang gusto at pilit na ginagaya ng LGBT community dito sa Pinas, yung victim attitude para maisulong ang LGBT rights. #mgataonganaman
DeleteMas type ko tlga bakla sa tomboy. Pikon kasi mga tomboy sa totoo lang.
DeleteThis!
Delete6.38, binasa mo ba yung 100 list of sufferings chuchu nila? Tama, sobrang OVERKILL. Obviously gusto talaga nila pabagsakin yung family business nung mag-asawa. My gosh! Small scale business owners pinagdidiskitahan ng LGBT. Nagkaroon nga ng karapatan magpakasal pero kapag hindi ka supporter ng same sex marriage ipepersecute ka hanggang mawalan ka ng kabuhayan. Lumbas ang tunay na agenda ng LGBT--ang wasakin ang pamilya na sumusunod sa utos ng Diyos.
DeleteAng Marriage ay Di lamang institusyon, Ito ay isang sacramento sa ilalim ng batas ng Diyos. Kontra ang same sex marriage sa principles ng Marriage bilang isang sacramento kaya Panay ang pagsabi na "bigots" ang mga may paniniwala sa Diyos. Remember: the devil was the first one to demand equality with God.
Anti- discrimination? Pero bakit hindi nila marespesto ang gusto ng tao? Maghanap na lang sila ng ibang resto, mahirap ba yun? Marami na ang ganitong kaso sa US ngayon. Madaming nagsasara dahil natatalo sa kaso. Kakalungkot isipin😔.
ReplyDeleteDahil sa Amerika, mas importante or matimbang sa kanila ang karapatang pang-tao kesa karapatang pang-simbahan. Hindi nila ino-honor ang Bible, Quran, Torah (not sure I spelled this correctly; DialUp lang internet ko kaya di ako maka-Google), etc.
DeleteMeron din sa constitution nila ang freedom of religion. Karapatang pang-tao rin ang being able to practice their beliefs freely.
Deletebakit para kanino ba yung freedom of religion , sa mga butiki?
DeleteSa cakeboss na lang sana nag order ung my show sa tlc.ba yun
ReplyDeleteI hope these Christian bakers stand firm in their faith.
ReplyDeleteYes i pray they wont turn their backs on their faith.
DeleteThey did and God rewarded them by making them lose their business. The bakery closed in 2013 and they guy had to be, among other things, a garbageman. Go figure.
Delete9:32 what happened to them was caused by humans!
DeleteAnon 932 be careful.. be very careful
DeleteSana makabawi yun Christian couple. Haaay.
Delete9:32pm.. Matagal na ako nakkibasa lng dito pero di ko kayang di kita sagutin. You know God Is God All the time. And all the time God is Good. Minsan ti test tayo ni Lord kong hanggang saan ang faith natin. Personally naniniwala ako at the end of it all may nkalaan na masayang buhay mag asawang Ito, hindi man dito sa mundo kundi sa kabilang buhay don wala ng sakit at pagdadalamhati. Maging mga anak nila are blessed already. Sana huwag nyo ako ibash sine share ko lng kong gaano kabuti ang Diyos at sana maranasan nyo rin ang pagmamahal Nya pagdating ng panahon. Salamat at May God Bless us all.
Delete1:23 PM. God gives children horrible cancers, is this a test of their faith? Or are children are just born into this world to suffer that way as a test to their parents faiths? Well, God was definitely good to those lesbians (they could have faith too you know).
DeleteI believe they should be spare from these discrimination law. The argument about religion is too broad. LGBT received too much pampering. What a brat!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, they were not. Sorry ka kasi sa US mas mahalaga ang karapatan ng tao bilang isang citizen kesa bilang membro ng simbahan.
DeleteSo ang point mo di tao ang may sariling beliefs?
DeletePaulit ulit yung comment ng tungkol sa karapatang pantao nakakarindi na. Sa totoo lng OA na din ung LGBT minsan. Kagaya nyan, dahil sa cake na hindi nila nakuha may "100 aspects of suffering" tlga. Hindi ba may himig spoiled brat na yan? Hindi din ba nila nilalabag ang karapatan nung mag-asawang may bakery to follow the teachings of their faith? In all other occassions they were served, hindi nga lng dun sa cake dahil taliwas yun sa paniniwala nung mag-asawa. OA na. Lahat na lng.
DeleteIsn't it also their freedom to choose not to do it for them? Hindi rin dapat i-expect ng LGBT Community na tanggap sila ng lahat. May mga religion or tao rin talagang firm sa decisions nilang hindi nila or hindi pa nila kayang tanggapin ng buo ang LGBT. I have nothing against LGBT, but I also understand the people who cannot accept the LGBT. Respeto lang dapat sa bawat isa. Kung hindi sila ginawan ng cake, hindi ba sila pwedeng maghanap ng ibang gagawa?
ReplyDeleteExactly! You call that bigotry and there's no place for bigotry in the US. Dito sa Pilipinas, madami.
DeleteI agree with you 4:04.. some people are so quick to pull the bigotry card, sino ang totoong bigots ngaun? Diba ung pinipilit nila ang beliefs (LGBT) upon others? Kesyo dapat i-accept sila ng lahat ng tao? Where's equality in that? Some people can't partake in some practices because of their beliefs, hindi ba pwedeng i-accept na lang yun? Gawin nila yan sa Islam, let's see what will happen to them. If paniniwala nila na tama ung same sex marriage, may iba ring naniniwala na mali. So bakit nila fino-force ung iba who are against it?
DeleteThat BS! How can you say that the owners were being discriminatory when they too have the right to refuse since it is against their religious beliefs. Try kaya ng dalawang hitad na yan na bumili ng alak sa tindahan ng Muslim, kapag tinanggihan sila, discrimination pa din? Sus, masyado naman silang nag-over react!
ReplyDeleteBecause they have Federal laws na nagpoprotect sa karapatang pang-tao. Mas matimbang iyon sa kanila kesa sa religious beliefs.
DeleteMagkahiwalay kasi sa kanila ang simbahan at gobyerno at mas malakas ang gobyerno sa kanila kahit anong gawin ng simbahan.
@6:44...asa karapatang pantao rin nila ang mamili ng RELIGIOUS BELIEFS nh..
DeleteMagpapakasal pa kasi eh malamang sa malamang maghihiwalay din yan. -
ReplyDeleteEh ayun nga kasi. Sa oregon law daw illegal mag refuse ng service to their customer based on their sexual orientation. Tinanggihan nila dahil same sex marriage nga. So may sala sila. But then may freedom to practice religion din naman sa states diba? I dont know about legal proceedings pero di nabanggit na ginamit yun to their defense which I think sana ginawa nila kasi may point din naman sila. Mukhang ganyan ata sa states konting kibot demandahan agad. Mas madali nga naman sana humanap nalang ng ibang baker.
ReplyDeleteRidiculous people. Yes they might have been given the right to same sex marriage, but it doesn't give them that kind of entitlement to force their beliefs upon those people who has different faith than theirs. Let us lear to separate you gender right tk religous rights. You are also violating the freedom of religion that is stated the u.s constitution. Its not discrimination, it standing firmly in their rights to practice any religion they choose tonbe part of, and if christianity doesn't allow such, then they should be able to respect that, just as we respected the new law about same sex marriage. LGBT, you earned your respect, y cnt u give the same respect to religion?
ReplyDeletePoint on!
DeleteExactly my point.
DeleteA bakery is not a religious institution. It's a bakery who sells cakes, cakes for weddings. So refusing to bake a cake for a wedding because of a bias against sexual orientation is considered discrimination under the laws of that state. The gay women did not demand to be married in their church or accepted in their religion. You can't sue a church for refusing membership based on religious beliefs cause that is what the church stands for. But you can sue a business, no matter what the religious beliefs of the person, it should not lead to any discrimination or you are breaking the law. How hard is that to understand?
DeleteNo one forced their beliefs on these bakers. They were asked to bake a cake and they refused based on their religious beliefs against the sexual preference of the clients. Discrimination, period.
DeleteTrue!! The right to exercise ones religion freely has existed since the US constitution 1st Ammendment. Tapos may na-pass lang na bagong law making same sex marriage legal, biglang wala nang rights ang Christian bakers to stand up for their beliefs? And to think na kaka-pass lang ng law, and this incident happened in 2013 pa. The punishment is so excessive, parang same lang to dun sa issue ng refusal of entry at valkyrie. The lesbian couple are willing to financially destroy a family with 5 kids over cake and their hurt feelings. Tsk. So sad..
Deletemag.appeal sila ng counter-attack sa kanila..file a freedom of religion para hindi matuloy yung fines..hindi lang naman yung dalawang lesbian ang naharrass eh.
DeleteAnon 9:37 the owners doesn't want to be a part of an activity na labag sa belief nila. Tas nireklamo ang lesbians sa korte. Dba forcing your beliefs na din ang tawag dun?.kung wala silang pake edi hanap nlng sana ng ibang bakery. Anu ba.
DeleteWag nalang natin ipilit ang mga sarili natin sa kanila..irespeto nlng ung stand nila sa mga lgbt at magstick nlng sa mga taong tanggap tayo... ANg mahalaga may part ng society na tanggap na tayo...
ReplyDeleteOne of the few, whom I assume is part of LGBT, who makes sense. Wag ipilit ang sarili pag hindi ka accepted. Respect the beliefs of others nalang din, yun din naman ang ipinaglalaban ng LGBT diba? That they will have equal rights? Pero bakit when it comes to others di nila pwede ma respect un? Does that mean yung right ng business owners to stand up for their beliefs is lesser than theirs?
DeleteDapat naghanap nalang ng ibang baker ung couple. Madami naman bakeshops. Walang pilitan.
ReplyDeleteExactly!!! This is not the 20th century or earlier. There are so many bake shops that will gladly serve you. It is against the Klein's religion. If you think you will go to hell for condoning such an act then of course you will not do it. It's like forcing a moslem to eat pork and suing them for offending you if they do not agree. I am an avid LGBT supporter but this looks like two brats extorting because their feelings were hurt. GO TO ANOTHER CAKE MAKER. There are tons in the USA.
DeleteMukhang sinadya tlga nila dun magpagawa ng cake sa Christian bakery. Kawawa nmn yung owner
ReplyDeleteNakakatakot talaga magalit ang LGBT community. Tsk tsk tsk...
ReplyDeleteAnd the govt upheld the rights of the lgbt group but denied Christians the right to uphold their personal convictions. Where is equality to this? You cannot force a person to participate in an act s/he considered sinful. Untouchables na pala ang lgbt ngayon. I see more abuse coming. I salute the owners of the bakery for choosing faith over money.
ReplyDeleteDahil sa conviction na to maraming aabuso. Ibig ba sabihin nito pag nagpunta ako ng mosque na nakatsinelas at di ako pinapasok pwede ko na din silang kasuhan for emotional distress?
ReplyDeleteSigaw ka ng mental rape. O diba ang oa mo lang pag ginawa mo un
DeleteNakahanap ang dalawang tibo na eto ng way para pakaperahan. kung nireject sila pero kinausap naman sila ng maayos, bakit kailangan humantong pa sa demandahan? Mental Rape, high blood pressure, acute loss of confidence really para lang sa cake? Anong klaseng mga tao yan. Alam nilang may habol sila sa pera kaya all out kung ibully nila ang mga store owners. Ginamit nila ang kanilang right para magka pera. mga walang konsensya.
ReplyDeleteThis is my feeling as well. Naghanap ng funds to pay for the wedding.
Deletethe christian bakers were just standing by their beliefs...
ReplyDelete-Christian girl
parang nawalan na rin ang mga tao ng freedom because of this anti-discrimination law..wala na tayong rights to choose and stand for what we believed in...merong disadvantage at advantage ang law na ito...
ReplyDeletebecause of these kind of people parang against na ako sa LGBT, parang nawalan na ng karapatan ang mga tao dahil dito...some are taking advantage on this.
ReplyDeleteMay mga friends at family members ako na lgbt and i love and cherish them. madami sa lgbt ang nakadanas ng pang aalipusta kaya i undestand kung bakit ganun na lang talaga ang pagpupursigi nila na ipaglaban un rights nila.
Deletepero for me this case is too much nga... nakakapanlumo to think na other people would use this law to persecute other people na iba ang paniniwala sa same-sex marriage.
pero i hope you won't be against all lgbts... gaya nga ng sabi mo, SOME are taking advantage of this law, di lahat ng lgbt parepareho. i know some lgbt peeps who do not believe in same-sex marriage pero who wants the law to be available to others who do.
for me, nasa tao pa rin yan. ang taong gustong umabuso ng batas ay mang aabuso pa rin lgbt man sya o hindi, o christian man o hindi.
wow, iba lang ang opinion bigot na agad.
ReplyDeleteSome LGBT doesn't really care about the end of the world or the coming of Christ. Dba nga sabi this world is just preparing us for greater things. Pero ang gusto lang nila is ma grant ang "right" nila para sa makamundong mga bagay. Then so be it. Pero wag na kayong mangdamay ng iba. Hahahaha
ReplyDeleteyan yung mga pinagmamalaki ng mga pinoy sa amerika, yung dialogue na , sa pilipinas lang yan dito sa amerika di pede yan, achu chu! pati yung pagtaba sinisisi tapos me kasama ding walang gana kumain.
ReplyDelete$135,000! parang yung mcdonald's lang na kwento.
ReplyDeleteIf you operate a "for profit" business in the US or any place that has anti discriminatory laws, keep your religion out of your business. Refusing service to a demographic of people based on personal religious beliefs, something completely unrelated to the value of the money in their pocket, is discrimination.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you do not want to be sued like this couple, try not to call your customers "abominations unto the Lord" (Oh yes, they did). Do not take away people's dignity. Even Jesus said "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
para dun sa isang masipag magreply sa comments na paulit-ulit na nagsasabing karapatang pantao vs karapatang panrelihiyon daw ang issue:
ReplyDeleteThe freedom to practice one's religion is a HUMAN RIGHT, and it has always been one. On the other hand, same-sex "marriage" is still disputed upon. Do you realize that not even a month has passed since ang ruling ng US supreme court that same-sex marriage is among the basic rights sa constitution nila? Split decision pa. it was not even unanimous among the SC justices. Contentious grounds pa rin 'yan in most countries.
And that's not even the issue: ang issue, pinipilit yung Christian businessmen to partake in something they consider a sin. Say you have a Muslim chef na pinilit mong magluto ng lechon baboy- pagtapak 'yan sa human right nya.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, especially in the hands of those who would twist that little piece of knowledge to suit their positions.
That's why majority of Muslim chefs only work in HALAL restaurants. He cannot expect to work in any other restaurant and refuse to cook pork based on his religious beliefs.
DeleteThe most of the most progressive and richest countries in the world (and those that come up on top in the peaceful and happiness indexes in the world) have long legalized same sex unions. Even our fellow Catholic countries like Italy, Mexico, Brazil and Ireland.
Nahiya naman kami sa "a little knowledge" mo my dear. Religious belief and UNBELIEF are both human rights. But follow the law if you can't be less of a bigot because of your beliefs.
Bravo! Anon 12:34
DeleteThis is becoming a very sick world.
ReplyDeleteKasuhan din nila yung court. Discrimination against religion 'to. This is so unfair para dun sa mga taong naghahanapbuhay. Wala namang masama sa paghahanap ng equality. Pero iyun na nga e, EQUALITY. You are not above anyone, any law, any religion, belief or faith. Equal nga diba? Yun yung paniniwala nila. Napakadiscriminating nung court.
ReplyDeleteGusto ata nila na equality which applies to them lang, not to others. May nakapag sabi lang na they won't participate in something which they think is wrong and against their beliefs, may doubt, etc (100 aspects of suffering) agad. Which means hindi sila 100% percent sure of their decision to get married. Kasi if they were, no amount of negative opinions, etc from family and friends will make them doubt, anxious or lose confidence. If they were confident of their decision and relationship, they wouldn't need to make a big fuss over the bakers' refusal.
DeleteThey won't have a case, kasi the owners violated the anti-discrimination law. You CANNOT refuse service to anyone base on gender, skin color, religion, etc.
Deletekala mo naman aping api etong mga lgtb na to mukhang namera lang sila pinerwisyo pa yung nag nenegosyo,pwede nman humanap ng iba grabeng kadramahan na to ,sa US konting kibot sampa ng kaso pera pera na lang lahat
ReplyDeleteKung ayaw sa iyo ng isang establishment whether you're gay or straight, wag mo na lang ipilit.
ReplyDeleteMarami naman ibang mapagpipilian. Sila naman ang mawawalan ng kita.
Kung magdidimanda ka, ikaw pa ang magmumukhang masama.
Have some self-respect.
Exactly!!!
DeleteGrabe naman. Kawawa naman yung bakers. Pwede naman sigurong maghanap na lang ng ibang gagawa ng cake. At mag move on na. Kung mababankrupt yung business, magiging masaya ba yung nagreklamo??? Kawawa. Hindi naman sila binastos eh. I bet in a nice way naman nagdecline yung baker. So sana hindi na pinalaki. Masyadong butt hurt at self centered itong mga lgbt na ito. Dami niyong arte.
ReplyDeleteAng hirap mag-express ng feelings regarding this issue. Parang, pwede mong gawing miserable ang buhay ng isang tao dahil sa tinapakan ang "rights" mo, pero hindi mo inisip ang "rights" ng ibang tao to practice their religion/beliefs?
ReplyDeleteAnyone can express their feelings, that's freedom of expression. Just don't break the law so you don't get sued.
DeleteSana kung gusto silang respetuhin sila, matuto dn silang rumespeto ng paniniwala ng ibang tao. :(
ReplyDeleteWela
I think both are at fault here kasi instead na mag-move on at maghanap ng ibang bakery to create their wedding cake, masyado nila ata dinamdam yung nangyari. Unless, they want gain something from it--in monetary form, kaya they sued the owners. And also, they do not respect the religious practices of the owners. Etong mga owners naman, since they mentioned na they also entertain homosexual customers and declined doing this wedding cake for a lesbian couple only adds fuel to the fire. Tsaka I don't think the owners should make their transactions strictly business if they are concerned about their livelihood. Siguro, hindi lang nagkaroon ng respeto on both sides kaya humantong sa ganito yung situation. Sad :(
ReplyDeleteMaybe the owner of the shop can file a case likewise..human right violatiin or civil right or whatever right it is...maxado kc mapang angkin sa right ang mga lgbt..not all though..people should respect each others rights...
ReplyDeleteIf LGBT community wanted equal civil rights to same sex marriage, people also have the right to decline or refuse any matters regarding same sex wedding because that is not sanctioned by the law. Why do LGBT always have to push hard down the throats of majority. Look at want is happening to some its members and the things they are doing to common people who are working honestly, what will the community with them? They should do something about it. Such a shame, now they demand compassion and respect! My goodness!
ReplyDeleteTsk what is happening to America. Yung ibang nations, from communism naging democracy. Sa states naman, from democracy it's slowly turning into communism. Kaya nga tumiwalag ang US sa england noon kasi ayaw nila na religion is dictated by the government, yet now that's exactly what's happening. Bawal na pala manindigan sa Christian beliefs dahil nakaka.offend sa LGBT..
ReplyDeletem sure God will replace what you would lost. we will continue to stand what believe..
ReplyDeleteKalimutan na ang morally right, lahat legally right na. Kawawang sankalibutan.
ReplyDeletediscrimination ba yun??kung gusto nila tanggapin sila dapat maging open minded din sila na hindi lahat ng religious group willing to support their marriage.. Mahirap kasi pinipilit yung doktrina sa bible at batas sa lupa
ReplyDeleteThis is a glaring wake up call that the end of time is imminent. Don't blame it on Christianity. Sa totoo lang, sa kahit ano namang relihiyon, hindi recognized yung pinaglalaban nila.
ReplyDeleteganyan din yung nangyari dun sa customer nung photographer nung nalaman ng customer na suportado nung photog ang same sex marriage ay gusto nilang i-pull out yung deposit nila sa photog pero na donate na daw nung photog yung deposit sa isang lgbt foundation. hindi na nakuha yung deposit,
ReplyDeleteIf you're Christian, it appears that freedom of religion means the freedom to persecute others based on your religion. Amazing how religious people love to cloak the word "discrimination" under the guise of "freedom".
ReplyDeletePasintabi sa mga hindi nag-iisip dito, ang discrimination e discrimination, palibhasa kasi inuuna nyo mga kapulpulan nyo. Kung dito lang sana sa Pilipinas e kagaya ng ibang bansa na open minded baka umunlad pa tayo. Human rights before any bs religion, America is the land of the free, saksak nyo yan sa mga utak nyong hindi makaintindi ng simpleng pananaw ng America.
ReplyDeleteKapulpulan talaga? Hala sige ikaw na ang matalino.. tumira ka sa America ha. sa land of the free na sinasabi mo. next time I english mo rin ang comment mo para maintindihan ka ng mga kasingtalino mo.
DeleteDapat kasing ipasang batas yung hindi pwedeng i divorce/annul yung mga lgbt na nagpakasal na para isipin muna nila gagawin nila. This issue is too much, kapag against lang sa beliefs nila discrimination na. Dahil sa ginawa nilang yan nakakawala na ng respeto yung ibang lgbt kasi nawawala na respeto nila sa ibang paniniwala.
ReplyDeleteGays have rights, but Christians dont? This is not fair!
ReplyDeletekaloka ka te, right pa yung pagdeny sa right ng iba?
Delete